[personal profile] mjg59
Paolo Bonzini noticed something a little awkward in the Linux kernel support code for Microsoft's HyperV virtualisation environment - specifically, that the magic constant passed through to the hypervisor was "0xB16B00B5", or, in English, "BIG BOOBS". It turns out that this isn't an exception - when the code was originally submitted it also contained "0x0B00B135". That one got removed when the Xen support code was ripped out.

At the most basic level it's just straightforward childish humour, and the use of vaguely-English strings in magic hex constants is hardly uncommon. But it's also specifically male childish humour. Puerile sniggering at breasts contributes to the continuing impression that software development is a boys club where girls aren't welcome. It's especially irritating in this case because Azure may depend on this constant, so changing it will break things.

So, full marks, Microsoft. You've managed to make the kernel more offensive to half the population and you've made it awkward for us to rectify it.

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-14 07:49 am (UTC)
marahmarie: Sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell (Default)
From: [personal profile] marahmarie
I guess. But I'm not sitting around keeping a list of basically funny and mostly harmless humour that implies that all of this stuff is written by men and adding it up and going damn another kick in my crotch if it happens again.

I don't keep track and I don't keep reading, looking at or listening to what bothers me, because I can't change the person or people who the offensive comment(s) originated from, so I just follow my own real-life rules:

In real life, if you come at me with misogyny and/or rudeness over my gender that I don't like or am simply not in the mood for, I'll tell you to buzz off, maybe not that politely, or else I'll grow so quietly irritated in overly obvious ways with you that "buzz off" is certainly implied and the hint is usually taken.

But I can take a light joke or classic stereotypical statement now and then at my or my gender's expense. Most men can, too. All's fair in...life and war, I guess (I just don't walk around expecting to be aggravated or offended; if it happens in spite of that, then I'll take it from there).

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-14 01:28 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Do you really think female developers started out being hypersensitive to these kinds of posts? I assure you, it doesn't work that way.

It's something that grows on your psyche like a cancer. The first post or code comment you read doesn't bother you, nor the second, nor the hundredth. But slowly it seeps in. You're not one of us, you're the outsider, you're an alien. You don't process it consciously, it just blossoms slowly into awareness inside of you.

This is the reason free software and open source communities hemorrhage female developers unless they take active code-of-conduct policies. The subtle, constant message broadcasting you're not welcome. You're too sensitive. You're too emotional. You read too much in to things.

Some free software projects have pockets where they've managed to foster good relations and make things a bit better, like GNOME Love and Fedora and Debian Women. And even the establishments of these has been controversial, as the harassers argue that their rights are being violated and that some vague principle of equality is not being respected. The message continues to blare.

So eventually most women go elsewhere, not willing to be subjected to the subtle abuse that pervades the FLOSS ecosystem. The optimism that drives their early endeavours slowly trickles away from a thousand pinpricks as they realize the community is a cesspool that abandons them at the first opportunity.

Maybe you're okay with being the alien. I was once. But it gets old. I am utterly grateful that people like Matthew have continued to stand up and fight for better behaviour in the community. He's one of many lovely people who have tipped the balance for me staying in the community by not being afraid to confront these issues, and has helped me to see that I'm not screwed up for seeing this behaviour as exclusionary or for recognising it as poison.

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-14 08:38 pm (UTC)
marahmarie: Sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell (Default)
From: [personal profile] marahmarie
You know, I've been told once or twice or three times (by men, in the workplace) that I was "too emotional". But strangely enough, I didn't take it as proof that I was being discriminated against. Maybe it was because I knew the same men who told me so didn't tell other women that, because obviously other women were not being as emotional.

There's a big difference between "*You* are being too emotional" and "Women are too damn too emotional." I don't get upset or feel discriminated against by the former (though it does make me feel a bit alien for the moment, but I try to rationalize that and just let it pass). Of course I would be upset and feel discriminated against by the latter. Again, I don't go around expecting or looking to be offended. If it happens in spite of that, then I'll take it from there.

It's something that grows on your psyche like a cancer.

I understand what you're saying, don't think that I don't. White people accusing me of looking American Indian (and it is an accusation, not just any random comment, that has come out of too many mouths too many times) has also grown on my psyche like a cancer. Look my DW over for even five minutes and you'll see that. So I know what it's like to be disenfranchised by an entire group whose entire claim to fame is that they aren't like you and that you aren't like them. Maybe it makes you want to curl up into a ball and say, "It's impossible, I should give up, I can't change this".

And you know what? You can't. All the discrimination we go through as women and as part of any other group not supported by larger, stronger and often paler majorities will go on longer than we'll be able to wait for it to change (chances are, we'll long be dead and gone before that happens); in the meantime railing about it won't change a thing. People who don't rail about it but simply highlight the problem like Matthew does might, and for their ability to not just start the discussion but keep it rolling in a diplomatic fashion, I applaud them; I just don't think it's my line of work.
Edited Date: 2012-07-16 04:19 am (UTC)

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-17 08:28 pm (UTC)
maco: pink sakura (Default)
From: [personal profile] maco
I refuse to accept the idea that people can't make a difference to their environments. Telling someone "wow, you know, that really hurt my feelings. Could you not do that again?" CAN make a difference. It can teach them to pause a second to think about how what they're going to say is going to affect others.

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-18 03:28 pm (UTC)
marahmarie: Sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell (Default)
From: [personal profile] marahmarie
I'm not sure what context you're framing that in, but the subject of Matt's post doesn't hurt my feelings. As far as men telling me I'm being too emotional in the workplace, telling them that that statement "hurts my feelings" really just encourages an even stronger reaction to what bothered them in the first place - my emotional reaction to whatever. I can imagine the reply being something along the lines of: "Again, that's because you're being too emotional about everything. Stop taking this so personally."

You may think that this is proof that men are so cold/biased toward woman's feelings/emotions/reactions that I'm not the one who should stand back when they call me on my more emotional moments, but honestly, I can get that way myself with either sex (especially in the workplace, and even more especially if I'm the person in charge). Plenty of men have cried in front of me, not just women, but often even the men crying will just make me feel stunned and impatient. Not that I don't cry, too (dear God, I get into times where I feel like it's all I can do to stop for even a little while); it's just that the context it's done in, and how much relevance it has to the situation and/or people at hand, bears a lot of weight for me.

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-22 04:40 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
So basically, YOU'RE not offended so all other women should shut the hell up already?

So many logical fallacies all over this thread.

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-23 01:08 am (UTC)
marahmarie: Sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell (Default)
From: [personal profile] marahmarie
So basically, *part where junior member of Thought Police pretends to read my mind prior to locking me up in Room 101* so all other women *part where dramatically incorrect/anti-PC conclusion is reached so Big Brother will give you a cookie*

So many quack quack quack Newspeak

You know what? I can't hear you for that great big roaring river of politically correct bullshit mucking up your reply.

All other women can be offended all they want, comrade. It's none of my business. Wait, Five Minute Hate is starting - better run before you lose that cookie you think you just earned.

Re: get real

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2012-08-31 09:34 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: get real

From: [personal profile] marahmarie - Date: 2012-09-01 05:29 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-19 11:26 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Yay! Political correctness destroys another environment.

This entire debate is retarded. All that should matter is this: does the code work? If not, fix it. Otherwise, leave it be.

If someone is this thin skinned over something this harmless, how in the hell do they walk out their bloody door every day?

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-21 11:00 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] techiebabe
Oh, well done for introducing a disablist term into this debate. Sigh.

Srsly, I take your point about political correctness but there's no need to offend a whole other group of people in the process.

(I'm also a woman, and not offended by B00B135 or B16B00B5, it just tells me that some programmers can be silly, hardly news.)

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-21 06:57 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
You are an insane totalitarian freak, discriminating against crazy PC nutcases like yourself is a GOOD thing.

You need to accept that you are the problem, not us.

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-22 07:33 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Isn't the word ableism/ableist?

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-22 03:18 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] techiebabe
I don't believe so, although I can see the argument either way; sexism is discrimination based on sex, racism based on race, etc, so I see it as disablism based on disability. But I can see you might view it as ablism, based on ability.

Certainly as a disabled person I hear the term disablism regularly, I've not encountered ablism being used as a term by the disabled community. For example, there is "blogging against disablism day" each year.

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-22 04:43 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Both terms are acceptable, but ableism is more commonly used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ableism

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-27 11:38 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"Hi, as an able-bodied man I can assure you that I completely, utterly and totally understand the issue you are talking about. You should just deal with it or get the fuck out, like I do whenever I'm the butt of stuff like this. Oh wait..."

> does the code work? If not, fix it. Otherwise, leave it be.

Are you even a programmer?

> Yay! Political correctness destroys another environment.

Also known as "empathy", but whatever.

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-25 10:18 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
The world doesn't owe you automatic respect or a fluffy, pink, padded bubble to exist in. Grow a pair, seriously (offence intended).

Re: get real

Date: 2012-08-31 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
The world doesn't owe you automatic respect or a fluffy, pink, padded bubble to *sexist* in.

Just try to apply empathy. Is it really that difficult?

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-14 04:22 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
After all the overreacting I keep seeing, finally a sensible standpoint. Thank you.

Alexandre

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-14 07:15 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
You've explained how you feel that it's not worth it for you to take a stand on these issues, because it's not usually a positive experience to do so. That's totally understandable; it's pretty thankless and exhausting.

But why go from there to telling Matthew that he shouldn't spend his own energy trying to fix the situation? I think he clearly doesn't agree that he's unable to change the attitude of some of the people who make offensive comments.

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-14 07:44 pm (UTC)
marahmarie: Sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell (Default)
From: [personal profile] marahmarie
I never told him that so don't put words in my mouth. Matthew's free to do as he pleases. He can try to change attitudes all he wants, and I'll 100% support him in that. I was simply explaining that I don't think it's possible, nor worth the time and trouble, to try to do so myself.

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-15 11:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawn5NzO3VSYQkvHPMbC57xti-uxN2krA1-A
The problem is less that of software development culture, where jokes, expletives and other cussing is commonplace (especially in Microsoft's code), regardless of sex; it's more that of people being way too oversensitive to non-existent potential issues.

This is not sexist, this joke is not sexist. So what if it gives the impression that the code is written by men? If some people don't want to contribute because the code may 'look masculine', then they are the sexist individuals and should be reprimanded for being such.

We don't need radical feminism screwing up people's free-time hobbies as well as the already screwed up work environments most people suffer. If someone wants to put a small joke in their code, they can and should be allowed to provided it doesn't cause problems from a technical standpoint.

As some have noted here, the number should be randomly negotiated rather than a fixed value, that should be what is commented on, not some non-existent sexism....

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-17 08:30 pm (UTC)
maco: pink sakura (Default)
From: [personal profile] maco
Oh look, the "you smelt it, you dealt it" fallacy of sexism again. Yawn.

It's not that the code looks masculine. It's that the code looks like it was written by someone who will SEXUALLY HARASS YOU if you try to join the project. Would you join a project where it's obvious you will be sexually harassed? I wouldn't!

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-18 10:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawn5NzO3VSYQkvHPMbC57xti-uxN2krA1-A
(First of all, you're probably one of the most positive and forward-thinking geek feminists I've encountered and you get full ++ for your input)

[quote] It's not that the code looks masculine. It's that the code looks like it was written by someone who will SEXUALLY HARASS YOU if you try to join the project. Would you join a project where it's obvious you will be sexually harassed? I wouldn't! [/quote]

I wouldn't want to be sexually harassed either, I totally agree with not wanting to be sexually harassed.

However, does a person making a boob joke really make that person look like someone who will sexually harass you? It's likely you know quite a few people who have made boob jokes who have never sexually harassed people. Yes, some people are sexually harassed by very nasty people and for those who have experienced that, potentially inappropriate jokes may be a bit offputting.

But, why should a few nasty people who intentionally cause distress ruin the fun for everyone? After all, if it wasn't for the few people who cause people serious discomfort and distress, this joke would be criticised purely on technical grounds, rather than on political ones.

[quote] Oh look, the "you smelt it, you dealt it" fallacy of sexism again. Yawn. [/quote]

If "big boobs" as a hexadecimal number is actually sexist, that statement would be appropriate. It doesn't discriminate based on sex, however, so it doesn't appear to meet the criteria for being sexist. If you can show how that alone is actually sexist, then I may stand corrected here.

What I will say is that it is childish, it is moronic, it is stupid and if it wasn't for the fact it's apparently a hard-coded part of the management stack it would be totally pointless too. The developer should be reprimanded for his misdemeanor but he should also have a cheeky grin on his face while facing the sharp tongue of his boss... for life is pretty boring without the odd bit of controversy.

-- WarOfTheNerd

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-19 06:36 pm (UTC)
maco: pink sakura (Default)
From: [personal profile] maco
You never really know for sure who is going to sexually harass you, but you can look for clues. If someone doesn't know where the line between "appropriate" and "inappropriate" is, that's a clue they may also be unaware of where the line between "inappropriate" and "harassing" is. It's a sign they just aren't good with boundaries.

Re: get real

Date: 2012-07-21 06:58 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Sorry but you don't get to dictate our every word and action just because you might be offended.

Profile

Matthew Garrett

About Matthew

Power management, mobile and firmware developer on Linux. Security developer at Nebula. Ex-biologist. @mjg59 on Twitter. Content here should not be interpreted as the opinion of my employer.

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