[personal profile] mjg59
Reaction to Sarah's post about leaving the kernel community was a mixture of terrible and touching, but it's still one of those things that almost certainly won't end up making any kind of significant difference. Linus has made it pretty clear that he's fine with the way he behaves, and nobody's going to depose him. That's unfortunate, because earlier today I was sitting in a presentation at Linuxcon and remembering how much I love the technical side of kernel development. "Remembering" is a deliberate choice of word - it's been increasingly difficult to remember that, because instead I remember having to deal with interminable arguments over the naming of an interface because Linus has an undying hatred of BSD securelevel, or having my name forever associated with the deepthroating of Microsoft because Linus couldn't be bothered asking questions about the reasoning behind a design before trashing it.

In the end it's a mixture of just being tired of dealing with the crap associated with Linux development and realising that by continuing to put up with it I'm tacitly encouraging its continuation, but I can't be bothered any more. And, thanks to the magic of free software, it turns out that I can avoid putting up with the bullshit in the kernel community and get to work on the things I'm interested in doing. So here's a kernel tree with patches that implement a BSD-style securelevel interface. Over time it'll pick up some of the power management code I'm still working on, and we'll see where it goes from there. But, until there's a significant shift in community norms on LKML, I'll only be there when I'm being paid to be there. And that's improved my mood immeasurably.

(Edited to add a context link for the "deepthroating of Microsoft" reference)
Page 1 of 3 << [1] [2] [3] >>

Date: 2015-10-06 02:47 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Would you please consider standing for the TAB again this year?

Post content not showing up

Date: 2015-10-06 03:23 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
All I see is "fart fart fart"

Re: Post content not showing up

Date: 2015-10-07 12:58 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Well stop sucking ass then.....

fart fart fart

Date: 2015-10-06 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart

Re: fart fart fart

Date: 2015-10-07 09:29 pm (UTC)
marahmarie: Sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell (Default)
From: [personal profile] marahmarie
Wow, you people are really fucking assholes.

Date: 2015-10-06 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I may have missed something, but it seems to me like your complaint is orthogonal to Sarah's. She's complaining about Linus and some others being rude on LKML, whereas you seem to be complaining about something a bit more profound that cannot be fixed by merely being more polite. It sounds like you're questioning the decision process itself, and not just how the decision is communicated, am I correct?

Date: 2015-10-06 03:52 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
In an environment lacking personal respect, trying to make a technical point is futile.

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-06 03:53 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-06 05:55 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-06 08:36 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-18 02:46 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-06 03:57 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-06 05:37 pm (UTC) - Expand

What Sarah was pushing ...

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-06 08:03 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: What Sarah was pushing ...

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-07 11:02 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: What Sarah was pushing ...

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-07 11:41 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: What Sarah was pushing ...

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-11-02 08:56 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-06 05:13 pm (UTC) - Expand

Thanks!

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-08 08:41 am (UTC) - Expand

Questioning the decision process - never to late

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-06 07:53 pm (UTC) - Expand

Sarah Sharp

Date: 2015-10-06 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Sarah Sharp is just a professional victim. Please don't associate a legit Linux kernel fork with her brand of tactics.

Re: Sarah Sharp

Date: 2015-10-06 04:27 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
We really should just take your word for that...

Re: Sarah Sharp

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-27 05:33 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2015-10-06 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
You should go develop on bitcoin now because that community is definitely noting like the kernel community

BitcoinXT

Date: 2015-10-06 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I you want to avoid trolling and name-calling, work on BitcoinXT and not BitcoinQT.

Re: BitcoinXT

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-06 05:32 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: BitcoinXT

From: [personal profile] maco - Date: 2015-10-06 10:21 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: BitcoinXT

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-07 12:21 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2015-10-06 06:42 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] glyf
This is just a horrible, depressing indictment of the Linux community. Please let me know if and when there is a MJGinux-derived distribution; I'd love to at least give it a try.

Date: 2015-10-06 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
IMHO the best case would be if the changes ended up in the main Linux tree through pulls by somebody else. That way, people who want a more constructive environment could contribute to mjg59's tree (if he's interested in taking patches) but everyone else would still benefit.

Hmmm

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-08 08:47 am (UTC) - Expand

Tag me on that one too!

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2017-01-02 05:14 am (UTC) - Expand

Fart

Date: 2015-10-06 07:32 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Being a professional victim must be exhausting.

I'm offended too.

Date: 2015-10-06 07:41 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Hi Matthew,
Thanks for the post. If you are serious about it, please don't tweet profanity or retweet people who use profanity. Let it end here folks. https://twitter.com/rich0H/status/651450263874592768
From: (Anonymous)
It's something called GoneME, give it a try! I see the same brilliant spirit pushing your project XD

Date: 2015-10-06 08:23 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
It'd be nice if there was an impetus behind the fork except for "gently caress Linus", it would give me a feeling that there's some positive potential. Nonetheless, good luck, at least you're doing something.

Stay with the main project

Date: 2015-10-06 08:30 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Whatever happens, I will use the main kernel and I request everyone to do the same! It just makes no sense forking the kernel because of social issues. I hope your fork will die very soon and that no one will participate and use it. Because if you really succeed to split the kernel community it will just be bad for the quality of the project. You don't even have a real technical reason. So let it be! Let it go! Chill, relax! Let there be one kernel with all the people who are already involved and have experience in what they do there.

Re: Stay with the main project

Date: 2015-10-06 08:39 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
In other words, bend over and take the abuse with a smile, and don't worry about the continual drain of talent leaving the kernel team, because smart people prefer to work in an enjoyable environment.

Re: Stay with the main project

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-06 08:46 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Stay with the main project

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-06 11:08 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Stay with the main project

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-09 03:01 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Stay with the main project

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-08 04:41 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Stay with the main project

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-07 05:09 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Stay with the main project

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-08 08:57 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Stay with the main project

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-15 08:21 am (UTC) - Expand

*sigh*

Date: 2015-10-06 08:54 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Matthew, I don't know you in person but this really seems overreacting just like when I dropped my github account last year for them ignoring Russian law (they changed their mind/stance and came into compliance in a week or so).

If a woman is so silly and/or the society is so hopeless that things like Valerie mentioned (groping and such) actually *happen* at *conferences* without a proper man giving a proper kick into a bastard's face, there's no need to try to defend her cause: it's lost there already.

Thanks for all the fish, anyways.

--
Michael Shigorin

Re: *sigh*

Date: 2015-10-06 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Michael, that is perfect! No woman should go anywhere near Linux without a male bodyguard! Because men are evil woman-abusing bastards who need to be violently assaulted! But then where will women find male bodyguards?? It's so confusing.

Re: *sigh*

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-09 10:07 am (UTC) - Expand

I am a little sad

Date: 2015-10-06 09:06 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I'm not a kernel developer, I simply use linux kernel and the post made me a little sad. I think that respect is important as much as technical quality. And
going further Linus nature, kernel development need new platform, more "flexible" and open, so expert developers can control the code from new developers, tell them what is right or not without considering it as a personal attack, and create a more and more fruitful relation.

Re: I am a little sad

Date: 2015-10-26 12:13 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
With all due respect, I don't think that is realistic. That requires the kernel developers and Linus to actually want to take the time to listen in the first place. They clearly do not want to. They are now running amok and need to be taught a lesson in humility. Their arrogance needs to go.

Date: 2015-10-06 09:45 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Good luck, but she's still not gonna sleep with you, dude.

So...

Date: 2015-10-06 10:34 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
...does this mean we might get kqueue finally? Please?

FatELF

Date: 2015-10-06 11:59 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
So how do you feel about icculus's FatELF? It's a simple patch, and one thing I've wanted on Linux for years.

Date: 2015-10-07 12:25 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
You should put up a GoFundMe link or something.

Date: 2015-10-07 12:32 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Wow, if these comments are any example of the community, I don't blame you, dude.

Date: 2015-10-08 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Same

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-13 09:06 pm (UTC) - Expand

Whatever

Date: 2015-10-07 12:44 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Go ahead and good luck as a project manager at fortune 50 company in Philadelphia protecting the code base of your core product is horrible and difficult, dealing with people egos is even worse. Being the one everyone looks at when the product fails because you allowed a shit commit in, it changes you. That's why I can empathize with Linus.

Re: Whatever

Date: 2015-10-07 02:38 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
How does that justify being abusive and making personal attacks? That doesn't produce better code.

Re: Whatever

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-07 03:50 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Whatever

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-07 11:50 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Whatever

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-08 09:01 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Whatever

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-09 12:30 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Whatever

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2017-03-04 11:11 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Whatever

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-26 12:21 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2015-10-07 12:58 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
If I were IBM or any other corporate Linux stakeholder I'd be very keen on establishing a very feminist / inclusive Code of Conduct for the Linux community right now.

Not because it was the right thing to do or anything, but because it's pretty much the only way the kernel is going to be pried away from Torvalds.

"We're shocked, shocked to find abuse going on. Clearly Torvalds can't be trusted with kernel leadership".

Aaaaand boom, Linux is forked, several tens of millions is spent on rebranding, Torvalds is expelled for CoC violations, and a little underground funding goes into lampooning that stupid, "legacy" penguin.

Shiny new brand, shiny new conferences, shiny new CoC, old contributers welcomed back, kumbaya sung.

And 100% corporate control established. I'd give it 9 to 18 months. Count on it.

Date: 2015-10-07 08:26 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Haha!

If that even happens, the SJWs that swoop in will gut the project and leave it in ruins just like they did to the GNOME Foundation.

But go ahead, ruin a perfectly good software project to make yourself feel better.

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-07 08:42 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-07 01:44 pm (UTC) - Expand

A financial update

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-07 02:49 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-07 02:54 pm (UTC) - Expand

too late

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2015-10-07 02:39 pm (UTC) - Expand

by

Date: 2015-10-07 01:39 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

Re: by

Date: 2015-10-13 09:18 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Nice. I mean that. GTFO.

There was a need to try this

Date: 2015-10-07 06:02 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Linus himself has said that his kernel tree is focused on too much, and unfortunately I agree that the discussions on LKML can be harsh.

There was a group of people that spoke with Linus in person in the hallway after his talk at DebConf14. He said that being harsh doesn't seem to help stop bad code from coming in -- that it seems to happen anyway. So if being harsh doesn't seem to be helping, and it's clearly hurting, this seems to be more from "force of habit" than for tangible benefit, and there needs to be a more clear "feedback mechanism" showing that there are consequences to continuing bad behavior.

I think that's the spirit behind this fork, and if so it seems like a good idea.

Re: There was a need to try this

Date: 2015-10-08 09:06 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
*thumbs up*

Excellent observations.

You REALLY want to fork the kernel...

Date: 2015-10-07 07:38 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
...because of some feminist being pissed (which is basically the job description of "feminist") and developers not comforting pissed feminists and playing up to their rules?
Page 1 of 3 << [1] [2] [3] >>

Profile

Matthew Garrett

About Matthew

Power management, mobile and firmware developer on Linux. Security developer at Google. Ex-biologist. @mjg59 on Twitter. Content here should not be interpreted as the opinion of my employer.

Page Summary

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags