[personal profile] mjg59
Reaction to Sarah's post about leaving the kernel community was a mixture of terrible and touching, but it's still one of those things that almost certainly won't end up making any kind of significant difference. Linus has made it pretty clear that he's fine with the way he behaves, and nobody's going to depose him. That's unfortunate, because earlier today I was sitting in a presentation at Linuxcon and remembering how much I love the technical side of kernel development. "Remembering" is a deliberate choice of word - it's been increasingly difficult to remember that, because instead I remember having to deal with interminable arguments over the naming of an interface because Linus has an undying hatred of BSD securelevel, or having my name forever associated with the deepthroating of Microsoft because Linus couldn't be bothered asking questions about the reasoning behind a design before trashing it.

In the end it's a mixture of just being tired of dealing with the crap associated with Linux development and realising that by continuing to put up with it I'm tacitly encouraging its continuation, but I can't be bothered any more. And, thanks to the magic of free software, it turns out that I can avoid putting up with the bullshit in the kernel community and get to work on the things I'm interested in doing. So here's a kernel tree with patches that implement a BSD-style securelevel interface. Over time it'll pick up some of the power management code I'm still working on, and we'll see where it goes from there. But, until there's a significant shift in community norms on LKML, I'll only be there when I'm being paid to be there. And that's improved my mood immeasurably.

(Edited to add a context link for the "deepthroating of Microsoft" reference)
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Date: 2015-10-06 02:47 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Would you please consider standing for the TAB again this year?

Post content not showing up

Date: 2015-10-06 03:23 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
All I see is "fart fart fart"

fart fart fart

Date: 2015-10-06 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart

Date: 2015-10-06 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I may have missed something, but it seems to me like your complaint is orthogonal to Sarah's. She's complaining about Linus and some others being rude on LKML, whereas you seem to be complaining about something a bit more profound that cannot be fixed by merely being more polite. It sounds like you're questioning the decision process itself, and not just how the decision is communicated, am I correct?

Date: 2015-10-06 03:52 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
In an environment lacking personal respect, trying to make a technical point is futile.

Date: 2015-10-06 03:53 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Or, to put it in another way: there is no technical solution to "I hate X".

Date: 2015-10-06 03:57 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
No, they are the same thing. Having respect for others involes listening to them and taking them seriously. Rejecting others as usual but with a smile is not what Sarah was pushing for.

Sarah Sharp

Date: 2015-10-06 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Sarah Sharp is just a professional victim. Please don't associate a legit Linux kernel fork with her brand of tactics.

Re: Sarah Sharp

Date: 2015-10-06 04:27 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
We really should just take your word for that...

Date: 2015-10-06 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
You should go develop on bitcoin now because that community is definitely noting like the kernel community

Date: 2015-10-06 05:13 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
It's one thing to disagree with something on a technical level; that's a normal and expected part of the process. It's another to attack the person developing it and to describe it as "deep-throating Microsoft" (which, inevitably, then makes the news).

BitcoinXT

Date: 2015-10-06 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I you want to avoid trolling and name-calling, work on BitcoinXT and not BitcoinQT.

Re: BitcoinXT

Date: 2015-10-06 05:32 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
ugh...

IF you want to avoid trolling...

[Where is the Edit button???]

Date: 2015-10-06 05:37 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Then maybe it needs to get through better. I've seen workplace environments far more toxic than the Linux kernel community, where everyone was still very polite.

Date: 2015-10-06 05:55 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
This is a kernel, the only argument that counts is its technical merit.

Date: 2015-10-06 06:42 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] glyf
This is just a horrible, depressing indictment of the Linux community. Please let me know if and when there is a MJGinux-derived distribution; I'd love to at least give it a try.

Date: 2015-10-06 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
IMHO the best case would be if the changes ended up in the main Linux tree through pulls by somebody else. That way, people who want a more constructive environment could contribute to mjg59's tree (if he's interested in taking patches) but everyone else would still benefit.

Fart

Date: 2015-10-06 07:32 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Being a professional victim must be exhausting.

I'm offended too.

Date: 2015-10-06 07:41 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Hi Matthew,
Thanks for the post. If you are serious about it, please don't tweet profanity or retweet people who use profanity. Let it end here folks. https://twitter.com/rich0H/status/651450263874592768

Questioning the decision process - never to late

Date: 2015-10-06 07:53 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I think the kernel itself shows the lack of understanding a lot of things. The technical side is only one part of the whole development process. As I did see the e-mails, that kind of behaviour is absolutely not acceptable so I just wonder how this personality affects the quality of the product and the selection of the development direction. I would say professionally this kind of behaviour is a risk both technically and from the community side. I am glad if there is a good fork with a different and hopefully more intelligent concept.

petergk
From: (Anonymous)
It's something called GoneME, give it a try! I see the same brilliant spirit pushing your project XD

What Sarah was pushing ...

Date: 2015-10-06 08:03 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
... is exactly this: https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=a8ed5fad

Unfortunately, that's a German-only site, but you may find an appropriate translation by one of those web translation services.

Date: 2015-10-06 08:23 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
It'd be nice if there was an impetus behind the fork except for "gently caress Linus", it would give me a feeling that there's some positive potential. Nonetheless, good luck, at least you're doing something.

Stay with the main project

Date: 2015-10-06 08:30 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Whatever happens, I will use the main kernel and I request everyone to do the same! It just makes no sense forking the kernel because of social issues. I hope your fork will die very soon and that no one will participate and use it. Because if you really succeed to split the kernel community it will just be bad for the quality of the project. You don't even have a real technical reason. So let it be! Let it go! Chill, relax! Let there be one kernel with all the people who are already involved and have experience in what they do there.

Date: 2015-10-06 08:36 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Perhaps the only technical argument that *should* count, yes; Matthew is arguing that that is not the case in practice.
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Matthew Garrett

About Matthew

Power management, mobile and firmware developer on Linux. Security developer at nvidia. Ex-biologist. Content here should not be interpreted as the opinion of my employer. Also on Mastodon and Bluesky.

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