I've seen that same disconnect before, and you've just provided the clearest explanation of it that I've ever seen.
For a long time, I had no idea about the depth of the problem. I believed that a problem existed, because people said it did, and because I'd seen the occasional bit of questionable behavior in public; however, I mostly lumped it into the same category as various other immature comments of the sort you might see quoted on bash.org, and certainly never into the category of "fear-inducing".
Then I started occasionally seeing real explanations and reports of harassment, threats, and worse. And suddenly, I started to grasp the real severity of the problem.
Now, I'd like to think I understand the problem as well as anyone can who has not personally experienced it and who doesn't personally claim membership in any group subject to these kinds of problems.
So, for the record, if I ever find people doubting that this problem exists, or misunderstanding the severity, I can definitively say that the problem *does* exist, and I can point to some of the mails and comments mentioned in this discussion if anyone doubts the severity. Count me as one of the people who agrees that this behavior is *not OK*, and will say so if it helps.
(On a related note, I also think some males want to avoid coming across as the stereotypical whiteknighting male defender role, which attracts its own form of ire, and taken to extremes represents an entirely different form of somewhat patronizing discrimination. There's a certain social convention to just shut up if you're not a member of the ingroup in question.)
Power management, mobile and firmware developer on Linux. Security developer at Aurora. Ex-biologist. mjg59 on Twitter. Content here should not be interpreted as the opinion of my employer. Also on Mastodon.
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Date: 2011-11-04 10:11 pm (UTC)For a long time, I had no idea about the depth of the problem. I believed that a problem existed, because people said it did, and because I'd seen the occasional bit of questionable behavior in public; however, I mostly lumped it into the same category as various other immature comments of the sort you might see quoted on bash.org, and certainly never into the category of "fear-inducing".
Then I started occasionally seeing real explanations and reports of harassment, threats, and worse. And suddenly, I started to grasp the real severity of the problem.
Now, I'd like to think I understand the problem as well as anyone can who has not personally experienced it and who doesn't personally claim membership in any
group subject to these kinds of problems.
So, for the record, if I ever find people doubting that this problem exists, or misunderstanding the severity, I can definitively say that the problem *does* exist, and I can point to some of the mails and comments mentioned in this discussion if anyone doubts the severity. Count me as one of the people who agrees that this behavior is *not OK*, and will say so if it helps.
(On a related note, I also think some males want to avoid coming across as the stereotypical whiteknighting male defender role, which attracts its own form of ire, and taken to extremes represents an entirely different form of somewhat patronizing discrimination. There's a certain social convention to just shut up if you're not a member of the ingroup in question.)