Everything here applies to this as well. Thanks, VMware. In Microsoft's case it turned out that nothing was using that value and it could be replaced without breaking things. With luck that's true here as well.
Genuine question and not trolling: what constitute unacceptable offence and who decide who risk to be offended by what subject?
Is B19B00B5 offensive to women because it use usually sexualised women body part? Is B19D1C5 equally offensive to men? to all men? Not to me anyway so i can not judge.
Do you personally feel offended by any of them? Are there equally women and men who feel offended by sexualised content and what in sexualised content is so offending to them?
Maybe only a small small part of the audience feels offended by sexualised image and making such noise about them would be unreasonable.
I ask again honestly: Who in the kernel context feels offended? I, as a modern european, do not feel that the mere evocation of boobs is offensive to women nor that equivocating penises would be to men and vice versa( i am not offended to read about penises nor boobs).
Honestly is sex such a taboo that you can not even remotely picture it in you mind without feeling offended, or is that just women? Is there a presupposition that sex is offending to women and that's it?
I can just guess but am serious in asking these question, as far as i understand the kernel is still partly business sponsored and volunteer supported so such "no sex here that's unprofessional seems excessive to me". If you can explain to me that it is not a business practice but really a no-offense practice then who decide what is offensive to whom?
Actually, yes, though not to an extreme level. But perhaps that's why you're having problems. Inverting an argument only works if you invert everything - 0x0b19d1c5 might be offensive if men were in the minority in the technology industry and repeatedly had their skills and contributions denigrated and overlooked, but we're not and so it's not.
please define the oppressed minority group beeing discriminated by boobs evocation?
Women as a whole, really? My wife tells me that she would not feel as such. By the way she doesn't code but likes using Linux, and boobs and penises also. Do not feel offended.
No, you are right. To be fair, we should ask to every women in the FLOSS industry or at least a representative panel from different countries if they feel that 0xB00B1E5 is offensive/discriminating against them.
I am not 100% clear on what constitutes sexual harassment against "Women in floss" but i would not place a variable name in that category myself. If it's that group that you target we should ask them also.
The ones I've spoken to consider it representative of the general male-dominated culture that leaves them feeling unwelcome, yes. I don't think that this, in itself, is a big deal. It's just representative of a much wider problem, which is that the Linux development community (and much of the wider technology industry) has absolutely no concerns about engaging in exclusionary behaviour.
I now have the fear that "the ones you spoke to" are not representative of "women in floss" but may be vocal extremists. Is there a more substantial open way to formalize what "women in floss" really feels in general than through the ones you spoke to? We have a problem like this in french newspaper, some vocal Islam extremists do not like representation of their prophet and call to censure but the whole majority is fine with caricatures and a good ( or even bad) joke. We don't hear the latter so much than the bomb threats.
I still do not see sex allusions as a grave offense resented by a majority of "women in FLOSS" I hope not being wrong and would like some evidences for once.
Sex is fine, sex is good. Saying sexual content is part of male dominating culture is just denying the reality that sex is for the large majority of humans, women comprised, just fun, love or both. Saying sex is a weapon used to discriminate is false and sad. And when it is so, you should fight to give it back it's place and right to be enjoyed.
Something as fundamental, fun and important in everybody's life can not become a taboo which represent discriminating women. Do not participate in that.
Because sex is fun, kernel coding also is, and kernel dev is an open space where common people from different horizon gather, let's just profit from this instead of imposing such over prude standards. They don't protect anyone, they hurt the majority.
those who did the abode pieces of code must have thought differently. If they had fun, good for them, good for the Kernel. Again, who decide when it becomes offensive/discriminating? Are there somebody who have authority in saying they represent women in floss who said sex references are so to them?
See, nobody is arguing that sex is evil or dirty or wrong or not fun. People are arguing that UNWANTED sex is not cool. You may not like it, but sex IS used as a weapon against people sometimes. Saying that it isn't, or that we shouldn't pay attention to cases when it is because that would cheapen the goodness of sex, is seriously missing the point.
There's no contradiction between the statements "sex is a fun and healthy part of life" and "let's keep semi-professional public environments professional". It sucks that some people are scum and will rape or sexually harass women, and yes that means people who don't get aspersions they normally wouldn't, but frankly the amount that that sucks is way less than the amount getting raped sucks, so please kindly get over it.
Is it not totally obvious? Someone who's been raped feels extra vulnerable as a result. So a sexual reference, when not coming from a man she wants sex with... come on, joining the dots isn't really that hard is it?
I don't really understand what you're trying to argue, but promoting "sex is okay" isn't really a defence because that's not the point. The point is that certain things make certain people feel vulnerable, and potentially for good reason — the way to change that is to make the world safer for those who might be at risk, not to tell them their fears are unfounded.
You are not making the world safer like this, just making it appear so. Phobia is a things also but discussing further will get this comment suppressed too.
Rape is still not the topic but people here seem to bring it to have a reason to suppress your comments.
But from wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agraphobia#Treatment
and then citing people dedicated to threat it ( http://www.changethatsrightnow.com/agraphobia/how-to-overcome/ ): Most of us have some fears but normally they don’t affect our lives. Eventually we get past our fears as the mind learns that actually everything is OK. But people with severe fears and phobias like agraphobia (which is in fact the formal diagnostic term for agraphobia) are held prisoner by an irrational feeling of panic.
Most folks with phobias, including agraphobes, generally realize that their fears are unfounded or excessive, but they’re unable to overcome them – because the ‘rules’ which govern their response are at an unconscious level.
The presence of actual physical symptoms of agraphobia makes it even more difficult. Given how unpleasant that can be, it’s hardly surprising that most people with agraphobia simply learn to avoid the sexual abuse situations that frighten them.
But avoidance is not the best way to cope with any phobia. Besides the limitations on your life, having an untreated anxiety disorder may leave you more vulnerable to psychological disorders like depression or alcohol abuse. A phobia can also strain your relationships with friends, relatives, and coworkers.
Power management, mobile and firmware developer on Linux. Security developer at Aurora. Ex-biologist. mjg59 on Twitter. Content here should not be interpreted as the opinion of my employer. Also on Mastodon.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 08:15 pm (UTC)what constitute unacceptable offence and who decide who risk to be offended by what subject?
Is B19B00B5 offensive to women because it use usually sexualised women body part?
Is B19D1C5 equally offensive to men? to all men? Not to me anyway so i can not judge.
Do you personally feel offended by any of them? Are there equally women and men who feel offended by sexualised content and what in sexualised content is so offending to them?
Maybe only a small small part of the audience feels offended by sexualised image and making such noise about them would be unreasonable.
I ask again honestly:
Who in the kernel context feels offended?
I, as a modern european, do not feel that the mere evocation of boobs is offensive to women nor that equivocating penises would be to men and vice versa( i am not offended to read about penises nor boobs).
Honestly is sex such a taboo that you can not even remotely picture it in you mind without feeling offended, or is that just women? Is there a presupposition that sex is offending to women and that's it?
I can just guess but am serious in asking these question, as far as i understand the kernel is still partly business sponsored and volunteer supported so such "no sex here that's unprofessional seems excessive to me". If you can explain to me that it is not a business practice but really a no-offense practice then who decide what is offensive to whom?
Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 08:39 pm (UTC)Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 08:48 pm (UTC)Have you?
Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 09:01 pm (UTC)Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 09:23 pm (UTC)Women as a whole, really? My wife tells me that she would not feel as such. By the way she doesn't code but likes using Linux, and boobs and penises also. Do not feel offended.
Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 09:32 pm (UTC)Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 09:44 pm (UTC)I am not 100% clear on what constitutes sexual harassment against "Women in floss" but i would not place a variable name in that category myself. If it's that group that you target we should ask them also.
Or is that your call?
Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 09:56 pm (UTC)Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 10:12 pm (UTC)I still do not see sex allusions as a grave offense resented by a majority of "women in FLOSS"
I hope not being wrong and would like some evidences for once.
Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 10:55 pm (UTC)Saying sex is a weapon used to discriminate is false and sad. And when it is so, you should fight to give it back it's place and right to be enjoyed.
Something as fundamental, fun and important in everybody's life can not become a taboo which represent discriminating women. Do not participate in that.
Because sex is fun, kernel coding also is, and kernel dev is an open space where common people from different horizon gather, let's just profit from this instead of imposing such over prude standards. They don't protect anyone, they hurt the majority.
Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 11:12 pm (UTC)Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 11:20 pm (UTC)Again, who decide when it becomes offensive/discriminating? Are there somebody who have authority in saying they represent women in floss who said sex references are so to them?
Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-13 11:33 pm (UTC)Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-14 01:06 am (UTC)Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-14 01:02 am (UTC)There's no contradiction between the statements "sex is a fun and healthy part of life" and "let's keep semi-professional public environments professional". It sucks that some people are scum and will rape or sexually harass women, and yes that means people who don't get aspersions they normally wouldn't, but frankly the amount that that sucks is way less than the amount getting raped sucks, so please kindly get over it.
Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-15 06:34 am (UTC)I don't really understand what you're trying to argue, but promoting "sex is okay" isn't really a defence because that's not the point. The point is that certain things make certain people feel vulnerable, and potentially for good reason — the way to change that is to make the world safer for those who might be at risk, not to tell them their fears are unfounded.
Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-15 10:54 am (UTC)Re: What is offending - uncorrect?
Date: 2012-11-15 12:17 pm (UTC)But from wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agraphobia#Treatment
and then citing people dedicated to threat it ( http://www.changethatsrightnow.com/agraphobia/how-to-overcome/ ):
Most of us have some fears but normally they don’t affect our lives. Eventually we get past our fears as the mind learns that actually everything is OK. But people with severe fears and phobias like agraphobia (which is in fact the formal diagnostic term for agraphobia) are held prisoner by an irrational feeling of panic.
Most folks with phobias, including agraphobes, generally realize that their fears are unfounded or excessive, but they’re unable to overcome them – because the ‘rules’ which govern their response are at an unconscious level.
The presence of actual physical symptoms of agraphobia makes it even more difficult. Given how unpleasant that can be, it’s hardly surprising that most people with agraphobia simply learn to avoid the sexual abuse situations that frighten them.
But avoidance is not the best way to cope with any phobia. Besides the limitations on your life, having an untreated anxiety disorder may leave you more vulnerable to psychological disorders like depression or alcohol abuse. A phobia can also strain your relationships with friends, relatives, and coworkers.