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mjg59Richard Stallman has once again managed to demonstrate incredible insensitivity[1]. There's an argument that in a pure technical universe this is irrelevant and we should instead only consider what he does in free software[2], but free software isn't a purely technical topic - the GNU Manifesto is nakedly political, and while free software may result in better technical outcomes it is fundamentally focused on individual freedom and will compromise on technical excellence if otherwise the result would be any compromise on those freedoms. And in a political movement, there is no way that we can ignore the behaviour and beliefs of that movement's leader. Stallman is driving away our natural allies. It's inappropriate for him to continue as the figurehead for free software.
But I'm not calling for Stallman to be replaced. If the history of social movements has taught us anything, it's that tying a movement to a single individual is a recipe for disaster. The FSF needs a president, but there's no need for that person to be a leader - instead, we need to foster an environment where any member of the community can feel empowered to speak up about the importance of free software. A decentralised movement about returning freedoms to individuals can't also be about elevating a single individual to near-magical status. Heroes will always end up letting us down. We fix that by removing the need for heroes in the first place, not attempting to find increasingly perfect heroes.
Stallman was never going to save us. We need to take responsibility for saving ourselves. Let's talk about how we do that.
[1] There will doubtless be people who will leap to his defense with the assertion that he's neurodivergent and all of these cases are consequences of that.
(A) I am unaware of a formal diagnosis of that, and I am unqualified to make one myself. I suspect that basically everyone making that argument is similarly unqualified.
(B) I've spent a lot of time working with him to help him understand why various positions he holds are harmful. I've reached the conclusion that it's not that he's unable to understand, he's just unwilling to change his mind.
[2] This argument is, obviously, bullshit
But I'm not calling for Stallman to be replaced. If the history of social movements has taught us anything, it's that tying a movement to a single individual is a recipe for disaster. The FSF needs a president, but there's no need for that person to be a leader - instead, we need to foster an environment where any member of the community can feel empowered to speak up about the importance of free software. A decentralised movement about returning freedoms to individuals can't also be about elevating a single individual to near-magical status. Heroes will always end up letting us down. We fix that by removing the need for heroes in the first place, not attempting to find increasingly perfect heroes.
Stallman was never going to save us. We need to take responsibility for saving ourselves. Let's talk about how we do that.
[1] There will doubtless be people who will leap to his defense with the assertion that he's neurodivergent and all of these cases are consequences of that.
(A) I am unaware of a formal diagnosis of that, and I am unqualified to make one myself. I suspect that basically everyone making that argument is similarly unqualified.
(B) I've spent a lot of time working with him to help him understand why various positions he holds are harmful. I've reached the conclusion that it's not that he's unable to understand, he's just unwilling to change his mind.
[2] This argument is, obviously, bullshit
no subject
Date: 2019-09-14 02:39 pm (UTC)I just don't understand the drama.
1. Richard Stallman pointed out that the word "rape" is improperly used, because sex with minors is not always rape, it could be with consent. The other person in the mailing list pointed that the law of Virgin Island defines "rape" as every sexual contact with minors, so in this case "rape" is used correctly (by this person words).
2. Richard also pointed that "sexual assault" term is vague and also could be used improperly.
That's it? Why is this the topic for discussion, then? And why does it have something with FSF? Am I missing something that prevents me to understand the situation, maybe it's much deeper?
I may be biased because here in Russia, the youth use funny stickers with Masha Babko, the child porn star, and the phrases like "PM me CP" is considered funny and are widely used.
[2] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ne8b47/two-researchers-resign-in-protest-over-mit-media-labs-ties-to-jeffrey-epstein
no subject
Date: 2019-09-14 02:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-14 02:55 pm (UTC)Yes, that's what the other person replied to Stallman, in another words.
>It has something to do with the FSF because, well, he's the founder and leader of the FSF?
He doesn't speak from FSF, it's his own words as a person. If Stallman did his FSF duties before these words and will do exactly the same duties after these words, why does it matter? Why should personal opinion (or in this case just a misunderstanding and questions) should somehow influence FSF?
I don't know, it looks like a usual, everyday conversation for me, that I don't understand why this is news and why it has something with FSF.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-14 03:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-14 04:20 pm (UTC)Yes, I agree with that in general. As far as I understand, that mailing list is technical and Stallman replied to off-topic message, bringing more off-topic messages.
>The reason RMS can't separate himself from the FSF is because he's synonymous with it.
mjg59, you speak about yourself. It's you who can't separate the person from the foundation. I see Stallman and FSF as two different entities. I understand why people associate Stallman with FSF though, as he is widely known for FSF, but that's not how a sane person should think.
I have friends who hate gays or even all English-speakers in general, but that does not impact their professional career. They are brilliant hardware and software reverse engineers. This is beyond any logic, but this is how it is.
Now, this situation is the same: if the topic is "child abuse" and someone says something contraversal, other turn off their logical thinking and blame him.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-14 04:24 pm (UTC)MJG59 is a self righteous douchebag
Date: 2019-10-13 04:59 am (UTC)fucking assholes like you are why Trump got elected. Go fuck yourself.
People like you need a severe beating.
Re: MJG59 is a self righteous douchebag
Date: 2019-10-13 08:46 am (UTC)Pretty sure that's a consequence of people voting for Trump.
Let's stay realistic
Date: 2019-12-27 11:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-14 03:03 pm (UTC)Why it's a problem
Date: 2019-09-14 03:55 pm (UTC)OK, so I do think it is useful and meaningful to distinguish between "rape" and "statutory rape". Not that I think either one should be legal, just... they're different things, with different implications. It's not an accident that the legal system has different names for them.
However, I agree that it's totally inappropriate for RMS to be nitpicking it in that context, regardless of whether he's even correct. It's a sign of insensitivity.
In the general case, reasonable people can disagree about whether age of consent starts at 16 or 18 or whatever, or what the max age gap should be, etc. (Some states have "Romeo & Juliet" laws regarding the age gap for this reason.) But this is a pretty clear cut case of "should have known better" on Minsky's part: You're supposed to evaluate whether your sexual partner is capable of consent, and there were obvious red flags here. It doesn't actually *matter* whether the 17 year old was willing at the time!
I don't actually know if RMS is on board with that definition of consent, or not. (The email fragments are small and low in context.) The problem is that he appears to be derailing into legalistic stuff that's largely irrelevant, and that's pretty insensitive in context.
Re: Why it's a problem
Date: 2019-09-17 09:23 am (UTC)Yes, *strictly speaking* there *exists* a *theoretical* possibility for children to consent into sex with a 60yo dude. However, it's totally absurd to use this as an argument to change law or legalize paedophilia, since the downside (some poor poor souls having a bit less sex under age) is dramatically outweighed by the tremendous amount of children possibly saved by criminalizing the act.
Similarly, there is of course a difference between acting violently and whatnot. In the end, this is just derailing and effectively downplaying the actual act -- and I don't care if RMS actually intended to do so or really thinks he does a valuable contribution to the discussion and just feels misunderstood. Either way, it makes him unfit for the president of the FSF. It doesn't make him someone I'd "hate" against or try to make a lawsuit against. But that's neither was mjg59 is saying nor any of us other "SJWs".
no subject
Date: 2019-09-15 10:22 am (UTC)Not sure which youth you are supposed to mean, but no one I personally know would use such a phrase or share such a sticker. Please don't mark it as "just a Russian thing".
no subject
Date: 2019-09-15 12:01 pm (UTC)She with other girls was filmed in the one-man studio in Novosibirsk (1st Studio), the arrest of who had gained a lot of coverage in media. After some time, almost all of the porn videos and photos got uploaded to the internet, presumably by the police, and were shared among users enormous number of times via p2p (Direct Connect networks were very popular in Russia at that time, every major ISP had their own Hub, and when you connect to the ISP, it was a common thing for the ISP staff to install DC++ client to your PC along with network configuration).
Now Masha tries to use her past popularity to earn some money and to get some attention. She participated in a very popular Пусть Говорят (Let Them Talk) TV talk show, participated in the interviews for some magazines, sold signatures (signature - a photo of herself with a piece of paper with arbitrary text specified by the customer, made for a small fee).
no subject
Date: 2019-09-15 12:23 pm (UTC)You mention social networks and youtube. These things are echo chambers; they recommend you things that they think will induce more clicks out of you (one side effect of that is clickbait: the more infuriating it is, the more likely you are to click to learn more). Are you sure this "popularity" isn't an artefact of targeted advertising?
no subject
Date: 2019-09-15 12:39 pm (UTC)It could be because you haven't seen Masha before and can't recognize her. The memes are usually out-of-context and you should be 'in' to understand the context.
Just google for "цп в лс" for example.
https://cs7.pikabu.ru/post_img/2014/06/23/0/1403469764_1142720630.jpg
https://cs6.pikabu.ru/post_img/big/2015/02/18/6/1424252039_350025787.jpg
no subject
Date: 2019-09-15 01:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-16 04:39 am (UTC)can 9gag represent modern usa culture? i think yes
MJG59 is a self righteous douchebag
Date: 2019-10-13 05:02 am (UTC)the internet is American culture,
4chan is possibly the most honest place on the internet, ergo....