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mjg59Update: Patches to fix this have been posted
There's a story going round that Lenovo have signed an agreement with Microsoft that prevents installing free operating systems. This is sensationalist, untrue and distracts from a genuine problem.
The background is straightforward. Intel platforms allow the storage to be configured in two different ways - "standard" (normal AHCI on SATA systems, normal NVMe on NVMe systems) or "RAID". "RAID" mode is typically just changing the PCI IDs so that the normal drivers won't bind, ensuring that drivers that support the software RAID mode are used. Intel have not submitted any patches to Linux to support the "RAID" mode.
In this specific case, Lenovo's firmware defaults to "RAID" mode and doesn't allow you to change that. Since Linux has no support for the hardware when configured this way, you can't install Linux (distribution installers will boot, but won't find any storage device to install the OS to).
Why would Lenovo do this? I don't know for sure, but it's potentially related to something I've written about before - recent Intel hardware needs special setup for good power management. The storage driver that Microsoft ship doesn't do that setup. The Intel-provided driver does. "RAID" mode prevents the Microsoft driver from binding and forces the user to use the Intel driver, which means they get the correct power management configuration, battery life is better and the machine doesn't melt.
(Why not offer the option to disable it? A user who does would end up with a machine that doesn't boot, and if they managed to figure that out they'd have worse power management. That increases support costs. For a consumer device, why would you want to? The number of people buying these laptops to run anything other than Windows is miniscule)
Things are somewhat obfuscated due to a statement from a Lenovo rep:
The real problem here is that Intel do very little to ensure that free operating systems work well on their consumer hardware - we still have no information from Intel on how to configure systems to ensure good power management, we have no support for storage devices in "RAID" mode and we have no indication that this is going to get better in future. If Intel had provided that support, this issue would never have occurred. Rather than be angry at Lenovo, let's put pressure on Intel to provide support for their hardware.
There's a story going round that Lenovo have signed an agreement with Microsoft that prevents installing free operating systems. This is sensationalist, untrue and distracts from a genuine problem.
The background is straightforward. Intel platforms allow the storage to be configured in two different ways - "standard" (normal AHCI on SATA systems, normal NVMe on NVMe systems) or "RAID". "RAID" mode is typically just changing the PCI IDs so that the normal drivers won't bind, ensuring that drivers that support the software RAID mode are used. Intel have not submitted any patches to Linux to support the "RAID" mode.
In this specific case, Lenovo's firmware defaults to "RAID" mode and doesn't allow you to change that. Since Linux has no support for the hardware when configured this way, you can't install Linux (distribution installers will boot, but won't find any storage device to install the OS to).
Why would Lenovo do this? I don't know for sure, but it's potentially related to something I've written about before - recent Intel hardware needs special setup for good power management. The storage driver that Microsoft ship doesn't do that setup. The Intel-provided driver does. "RAID" mode prevents the Microsoft driver from binding and forces the user to use the Intel driver, which means they get the correct power management configuration, battery life is better and the machine doesn't melt.
(Why not offer the option to disable it? A user who does would end up with a machine that doesn't boot, and if they managed to figure that out they'd have worse power management. That increases support costs. For a consumer device, why would you want to? The number of people buying these laptops to run anything other than Windows is miniscule)
Things are somewhat obfuscated due to a statement from a Lenovo rep:
This system has a Signature Edition of Windows 10 Home installed. It is locked per our agreement with Microsoft.It's unclear what this is meant to mean. Microsoft could be insisting that Signature Edition systems ship in "RAID" mode in order to ensure that users get a good power management experience. Or it could be a misunderstanding regarding UEFI Secure Boot - Microsoft do require that Secure Boot be enabled on all Windows 10 systems, but (a) the user must be able to manage the key database and (b) there are several free operating systems that support UEFI Secure Boot and have appropriate signatures. Neither interpretation indicates that there's a deliberate attempt to prevent users from installing their choice of operating system.
The real problem here is that Intel do very little to ensure that free operating systems work well on their consumer hardware - we still have no information from Intel on how to configure systems to ensure good power management, we have no support for storage devices in "RAID" mode and we have no indication that this is going to get better in future. If Intel had provided that support, this issue would never have occurred. Rather than be angry at Lenovo, let's put pressure on Intel to provide support for their hardware.
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Shared blame
Date: 2016-09-21 06:09 pm (UTC)So they should be blamed for choosing an hardware with windows-only drivers.
They could also have added an option in the BIOS/UEFI that, once the secure boot has been disabled, allows the user to also disable this RAID mode.
RAID level?
Date: 2016-09-21 06:31 pm (UTC)All that said, I think Intel absolutely should be held responsible, they certainly push themselves as a Linux friendly company, and disk controllers should be a basic device I should always be able to access.
no subject
Date: 2016-09-21 06:47 pm (UTC)But then you insist that it's not Lenovo trying to lock out other operating systems. How do you know that? Did they give you the scoop?
Even if the device would get worse battery life (which we don't know that it would, and nobody who booted up Linux on the ISK model or Live on the ISK2 reported their laptop "melting"), it should be up to the user.
You say that if your guess is right, it's a cheap hack to work around crappy power management in Windows. Do we know Linux has crappy power management like Windows does?
no subject
Date: 2016-09-21 06:55 pm (UTC)If it was to prevent a clueless user from ending up in that situation where Windows wouldn't boot if they toggled it to AHCI mode, then why did Lenovo write code to make sure that if you used an EFI variable to set it, that it would switch it back to RAID? Is a user that doesn't know what they're doing likely to be in the EFI shell?
no subject
Date: 2016-09-21 07:02 pm (UTC)The change only prevents Linux being installed because Linux doesn't support modern hardware. It's easier to fix that than it is to get a vendor to push a firmware update.
> But then you insist that it's not Lenovo trying to lock out other operating systems. How do you know that? Did they give you the scoop?
Because they're not locking out other operating systems? Linux boots fine.
> Even if the device would get worse battery life (which we don't know that it would, and nobody who booted up Linux on the ISK model or Live on the ISK2 reported their laptop "melting"), it should be up to the user.
Why should it be up to the user? Should the user be able to program every memory timing option, even if by doing so they introduce occasional crashes? Should they be able to set every thermal threshold, even if by doing so they're reducing their hardware life expectancy? All hardware vendors restrict the options available to users.
> You say that if your guess is right, it's a cheap hack to work around crappy power management in Windows. Do we know Linux has crappy power management like Windows does?
It's a hack to work around the fact that Intel won't tell anyone else how to make power management work properly on Intel platforms, including Microsoft. Linux certainly does the wrong thing here.
no subject
Date: 2016-09-21 07:04 pm (UTC)Re: Shared blame
Date: 2016-09-21 07:06 pm (UTC)And when exactly did you discover you were a pre-cog?
no subject
Date: 2016-09-21 07:37 pm (UTC)You forgot another interpretation where Lenovo has signed an agreement with Microsoft that prevents installing free operating systems.
Linux certainly does the wrong thing here.
Date: 2016-09-21 07:38 pm (UTC)Bleeding edge hardware often takes a little time before the drivers in Linux are quality, especially when using enterprise distributions like CentOS.
For Linux laptops I always buy used, used means getting Linux to work on the model I choose is well documented.
Liar.
Date: 2016-09-21 07:41 pm (UTC)This is a lie, you're obviously a schill.
Non-RAID settings were intentionally removed from the BIOS, and the RAID format used is non-standard.
no subject
Date: 2016-09-21 07:46 pm (UTC)Re: Liar.
Date: 2016-09-21 07:55 pm (UTC)This does not have a malicious intent. It's probably an oversight by engineering that didn't realistically see this as a plausible scenario on a consumer system, especially an ultrabook. Heck, I even install linux in VMs now rather than overwrite the host OS / dual-boot.
Re: Liar.
Date: 2016-09-21 08:03 pm (UTC)Lenovo made sane (although disagreeable as far as the Linux community is concerned) decisions with regards to supporting a consumer device, Intel has drivers for the RAID mode in their storage controller on Windows and that's what Lenovo ships and supports on the device. Manufacturers not giving a damn about Linux support and using hardware and configurations that isn't supported under anything but Windows at launch is hardly new (remember when Dell launched the updated XPS13 that moved a bunch of stuff to an I2C bus that wasn't supported by the Linux kernel for some time?)
This isn't the first time a "RAID" controller hasn't been supported under Linux, it's been less frequent because most of the time these were in workstation or server gear where there was incentive to provide support for something other than Windows. This is a consumer device, the vast majority of consumers just use Windows on their systems and OEM's have no reason to support anything else 99% of the time. Go yell at Intel and get them to either provide drivers or specifications so someone who wants to can do it.
Re: Liar.
Date: 2016-09-21 08:04 pm (UTC)It couldn't be that a support rep from Lenovo has no idea how to respond to a question that's 10,000 metres above their pay grade, and therefore got it wrong. Nope, must be a conspiracy.
Re: Shared blame
Date: 2016-09-21 08:33 pm (UTC)Microsoft's Secure Boot requirements
Date: 2016-09-21 10:27 pm (UTC)Dell XPS 15 InfinityEdge
Date: 2016-09-21 10:29 pm (UTC)Re: Shared blame
Date: 2016-09-21 10:49 pm (UTC)It's not even the wrong hardware, though. This hardware from Intel supports AHCI. However, the Lenovo BIOS has RAID selected as default (for single-drive, believe it or not!), and not only that -- it locks you out of changing it back to AHCI.
The option to do so is on the Advanced page of the BIOS, which was locked out by a small modification Lenovo made (adding two lines of code -- a conditional goto/jmp).
I agree that the blame falls squarely on Lenovo, but for very different (and more correct) reasons.
Re: RAID level?
Date: 2016-09-21 10:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-09-21 10:53 pm (UTC)This seems a little extreme. As hardware vendors go, Intel do more to get their hardware supported upstream than a lot of others. Sure, there are areas they could do better, but still.
Lenovo's decision to disable the standard BIOS/UEFI options that allow changing the disk controller mode is the real blocker to having the hardware work. Few people would want to use fakeraid on Linux given the choice anyway.
DIY support
Date: 2016-09-21 10:56 pm (UTC)Currently, one user had successfully installed Linux on their device by manually flashing their BIOS by soldering a chip programmer onto the actual chip.
They flashed a version they manually modified the BIOS by reverse engineering and hacking the code to get around Lenovo's goto stmt, restoring uesr access to the Advanced settings page.
So, is this your idea of supporting it ourselves?
Re: Liar.
Date: 2016-09-21 10:58 pm (UTC)Re: DIY support
Date: 2016-09-21 11:42 pm (UTC)Cryptographically signed firmwares are an Intel requirement and have been since Sandy/Ivy Bridge. Go look at Dell or HP and you'll find the exact same requirements for UEFI updates.
> Currently, one user had successfully installed Linux on their device by manually flashing their BIOS by soldering a chip programmer onto the actual chip.
Yes, this is the only way to bypass the firmware update signature check. Because by flashing the actual SPI EEPROM the check is not executed.
> So, is this your idea of supporting it ourselves?
Where on earth did the author ever imply or state that?
Flashing a modified firmware via SPI is the only known method for newer Intel platforms due to the signature checks performed during a normal firmware update.
Sometimes vendors are careless/lazy and people find other ways to flash modified firmwares. In cases where vendors don't screw up the reference firmware enough to nullify the security checks, you need to flash it manually.
Go read about this yourself (free eBook on Intel platform security): www.apress.com/9781430265719
Re: Liar.
Date: 2016-09-22 01:01 am (UTC)easy answer
Date: 2016-09-22 02:37 am (UTC)Of course, the user should be able to do all that. Whose machine is it, anyway?