It's time to talk about post-RMS Free Software

[mjg59]

Richard Stallman has once again managed to demonstrate incredible insensitivity[1]. There's an argument that in a pure technical universe this is irrelevant and we should instead only consider what he does in free software[2], but free software isn't a purely technical topic - the GNU Manifesto is nakedly political, and while free software may result in better technical outcomes it is fundamentally focused on individual freedom and will compromise on technical excellence if otherwise the result would be any compromise on those freedoms. And in a political movement, there is no way that we can ignore the behaviour and beliefs of that movement's leader. Stallman is driving away our natural allies. It's inappropriate for him to continue as the figurehead for free software.

But I'm not calling for Stallman to be replaced. If the history of social movements has taught us anything, it's that tying a movement to a single individual is a recipe for disaster. The FSF needs a president, but there's no need for that person to be a leader - instead, we need to foster an environment where any member of the community can feel empowered to speak up about the importance of free software. A decentralised movement about returning freedoms to individuals can't also be about elevating a single individual to near-magical status. Heroes will always end up letting us down. We fix that by removing the need for heroes in the first place, not attempting to find increasingly perfect heroes.

Stallman was never going to save us. We need to take responsibility for saving ourselves. Let's talk about how we do that.

[1] There will doubtless be people who will leap to his defense with the assertion that he's neurodivergent and all of these cases are consequences of that.

(A) I am unaware of a formal diagnosis of that, and I am unqualified to make one myself. I suspect that basically everyone making that argument is similarly unqualified.
(B) I've spent a lot of time working with him to help him understand why various positions he holds are harmful. I've reached the conclusion that it's not that he's unable to understand, he's just unwilling to change his mind.

[2] This argument is, obviously, bullshit

Comments

[andrewducker]

Two comments from autistic people:
https://twitter.com/mykola/status/1172601585429614592
and
https://twitter.com/HickeyWriter/status/1172674056828661764

[andrewducker]

Oh, and you are of course correct. RMS is definitely not good for the Free Software movement at this point.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm going to have to give a counterpoint. I'm personally on the autism spectrum and I'm categorically on Stallman's side here.

They only seem to address this in terms of "autism doesn't make you advocate for x" and not "85% of autistic people are unemployed, tech was historically the only industry to treat autistic people well, and there sure seem to be a lot of autistic people on the wrong side of these incidents".

And I can't remember the last time a prominent person got fired for anti-autistic sentiment - Max Read can use "neuroatypical" as an insult and still have Gawker stand by him and then get picked up by New York Magazine, pejoratives insinuating the people arguing with them are autistic (what's bad about having a neckbeard or wearing a fedora, again?) are routine in woke feminist circles, this stuff clearly doesn't go both ways.

You have to consider that stuff before deciding how to react to calls for firing one of the most prominent autistic people in tech, you can't just point to a couple autistic people who agree with you and act like they speak for everyone.

Re: boy

[mjg59]

Comment removed for victim blaming.

I need a better understanding

[(Anonymous)]

You say he holds positions that are harmful. What are they? I often read his political notes and have not found anything objectionable.

I am not pick a fight here, I am trying to understand your position.

Re: I need a better understanding

[mjg59]

See the first link in the post.

[valdikss]

I read [1] Vice news article [2] and I'm confused. I'm confused because Stallman is correct, while almost everybody say he's not, and even write posts such as [1] and yours, mjg59.

I just don't understand the drama.

1. Richard Stallman pointed out that the word "rape" is improperly used, because sex with minors is not always rape, it could be with consent. The other person in the mailing list pointed that the law of Virgin Island defines "rape" as every sexual contact with minors, so in this case "rape" is used correctly (by this person words).

2. Richard also pointed that "sexual assault" term is vague and also could be used improperly.

That's it? Why is this the topic for discussion, then? And why does it have something with FSF? Am I missing something that prevents me to understand the situation, maybe it's much deeper?
I may be biased because here in Russia, the youth use funny stickers with Masha Babko, the child porn star, and the phrases like "PM me CP" is considered funny and are widely used.


[2] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ne8b47/two-researchers-resign-in-protest-over-mit-media-labs-ties-to-jeffrey-epstein

[mjg59]

The word "rape" is not improperly used - the law considers that people under the age of consent are (as the phrase implies) not able to offer meaningful consent. The term "sexual assault" also has a well defined meaning that does not require violence. It has something to do with the FSF because, well, he's the founder and leader of the FSF?

How to move on

[jackhill]

I, too, am ready for post-rms free software. However, I'm not sure what we need to do to get there. Do we need to lobby the FSF for a change in leadership? Is it "simply" a change in mindset? Should we stop referencing essays authored by rms?

Some GNU projects, like Guix, seem to do the right things by having a strong code of conduct, participating in Outreachy, and having maintainers who actively support these activities. Is it okay to participate in such projects?

[classical_liberal]

Stallman accomplishes more in one week than you ever will in your life. Go back to Evergreen State and mind your pronouns some more.

[technoshaman]

So what *has* he done lately? I haven't seen jack out of his direction other than propaganda, and bad propaganda at that, in twenty years, and I've been doing Linux longer than that.

As far as I'm concerned, pronouns _matter_, and RMS... no longer does. That picture of his door with the crack about women was all I needed to see. This is the 21st century. Women are colleagues, not chattel, and people breaking out of the gender boxen are the same ones that are gonna make old white guys like Stallman, and, I suspect, you, obsolete. I for one welcome our pint-sized overlords with open arms; they're the ones that are gonna keep this place from literally burning down. A sixteen year old girl has made more of a splash in more places this week. Oh, and by the way? She's ASD. And likes it that way.

What RMS thinks

[(Anonymous)]

It's useful to read what RMS actually writes:
https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html

Re: What RMS thinks

[(Anonymous)]

It seems it's offline for the moment.

[(Anonymous)]

Look Matthew, I know you already said this about RMS before. But tell me, what is the solution? You know very well that a "president" wouldn't work for the FSF. In truth, it would be a committee mandate. And we know how well those things work, specially in technological environments. Either everyone agrees or no one does anything. And then people start picking sides, and tearing each other over political stuff. And nothing is done. What I mean is, if there isn't a RMS in the FSF, is there _actually_ someone who can be that person to foster that environment you speak of, or is it that just a bunch of buzzwords? Because face it - at the end of the day, no one wants to be RMS. That's how we got where we are today. No one wants the responsibility of being a "leader" of this movement. You may argue that this "president" may foster this environment of empowerment and tolerance, and I'm pretty sure this all makes sense inside your head. But how do we turn that into reality? Because I'm sure there isn't anyone who can do both what you said and hold the reins of the situation, ie. not letting people tear each other apart in a committee mandate.

You're always at the vanguard of those calls for change, so I ask you - why not take responsability, just this once? You're an excellent agent provocateur - and agitator - but aside from getting in the news once every few months about some issue happenning on the community, you never follow through. I'm not laying the blame of this on you, I'm saying that you can very well take the first step to foster this environment you dream of, yourself. This is a big chance for change. RMS should go. But at least in the beginning, some has to take the reins of the situation. No one ousted RMS yet because no one wants to be in his place. Everyone wants change, but everyone also doesn't want to take responsibility for this change. It must always be _someone else_ that takes the opportunity, never me. "I'm sure others will take care of it" is what everyone is thinking right now.

So if you can't find in your heart to follow through at least this once, then this situation will just pass over and RMS will stay the "hero" of the FSF. Because at the crucial moment, no one wanted to take responsibility. And your dream of a "community of empowerment" will be just that. A dream. Words scattered to the winds.

[mjg59]

I'm far too compromised to do that. I've alienated enough of the community that there's no realistic way that any initiative I take any kind of direct responsibility for will ever be meaningfully representative. I can talk about this and I can attempt to help others, but any meaningful effort on my part to do this on my own is doomed to splinter the community more than is necessary. Instead, all I can do is attempt to encourage others to play that role and do what I can to support them.

[(Anonymous)]

Although I strongly disagree with positions Stallman has stated in the past, free software, as you said, is fundamentally focused on individual freedom, and Stallman's statements are constitutionally protected political advocacy.

Retaliation against him for making them, as I've heard some advocate, would be an absolutely terrible idea and a betrayal of the free software movement's principles, and it's hard for me to see how he could be "removed as a figurehead" or step down at president at this time without it looking like exactly that. (And a lot of the loudest critics of his statements here seem like anything but natural allies - we have Clinton-owned clickbait rags and Microsoft employees piling on ffs)

That said, he's 66 years old and I 100% agree with the broader points about the importance of decentralization and this movement needing to be bigger than its founder, it can't be a 1-person thing if it wants to survive him.

[mjg59]

Advocating for proprietary software is a constitutionally protected activity, but it'd be disqualifying for a free software leader. Choosing to exercise certain privileges has consequences.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry you disagree with his opinion.

I'm also sorry we now live in a world where people can't accept that others opinions on certain subjects diverge and feel that they should instead be punished and isolated for daring to open their mouths. How do we ever hope to build bridges across the giant rifts in our society today with these kinds of attitudes?

All together now: "I cast thee out!"

US Constitutional Free Speech 2

[(Anonymous)]

USA's freedom of speech does not mean freedom from ALL consequences.

RMS needs a secretary

[(Anonymous)]

"it's not that he's unable to understand, he's just unwilling to change his mind" do you mean unable to change his mind about the positions themselves, or unable to change his mind about when and how to air them? If he can at least agree that yes in retrospect that might have been an unkind thing to say in that context (even if he still thinks it's technically correct), but no he can't promise not to do it again because he's not very good at spotting insensitivity before it happens, then perhaps all he needs is a good secretary. He can say "post this to the list for me" and the secretary can look at it and go "hold on, this one doesn't look very good". And if he really is neurodivergent (which does not excuse his views, but might affect his ability to stop himself expressing them inappropriately), then he really should get a professional diagnosis: there might even be public funds that could help pay the secretary, just as people with other types of disability can sometimes have assistants; these would be available only with a proper diagnosis, so can we recommend he gets professionally tested?

Re: RMS needs a secretary

[azimech]

“And if he really is neurodivergent (which does not excuse his views, but might affect his ability to stop himself expressing them inappropriately)”

Most men guilty of gross behaviors aren’t Neurodivergent, and Stallman regardless of his Neurological status has, like so many other men, is allowed to get away with things women can’t, and for decades in his case.

[lovingboth]

The mere fact that I am not at all surprised that he's done it again tells me he needs to go as a 'leader'.

1B - were you at all surprised at that?

[azimech]

Like I’ve stated on my Twitter account, speaking as an Autistic woman, the fact Ableism exists doesn’t erase the fact Sexism and Misogyny in disabled men, including Autistic ones, exists, and that using the Autisms excuse has become just another Boys Will Be Boys argument.

Stallman gets away with this shit because he’s a man, and how is the fact he’s been a well known creeper that women have been warned about in whisper networks FOR DECADES to avoid sexual harassment any different from NT ones?

Not to mention how disabled women are targeted more than abled for sexual abuse and harassment, but I don’t see that many people bringing THAT up. I do however notice the past decade or so when topics of sexual harassment by men get brought up, it’s framed in defense of men, as though all men are Autistic, women never are, and it’s just this innocent misunderstanding. Convenient.

[brooksmoses]

Update: https://www.fsf.org/news/richard-m-stallman-resigns

"On September 16, 2019, Richard M. Stallman, founder and president of the Free Software Foundation, resigned as president and from its board of directors. The board will be conducting a search for a new president, beginning immediately. Further details of the search will be published on fsf.org."

The mob

[(Anonymous)]

This seems to be happening more and more – people calling in the media and on social media for people to be sacked or forced to resign, because of something that they've said which is painted as highly offensive (and let's not try to steelman people or read them charitably or with careful attention to the context, let's just assume whatever the headline says they said is what they said.) And then, rather than standing up with courage to the media mob, people fold and give in to them.

I see what has happened to Stallman as just the latest instance of this disturbing cultural pattern.

The FSF should consider, that while Stallman's departure will please some, there will be others who will view it as injustice and another victory for the mob. This event doesn't increase the standing of the FSF in my eyes, it reduces it, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who sees things this way. (But, fearing the mob ourselves, we aren't going to put our names to our opinions.)

Re: The mob

[(Anonymous)]

I feel the same way. Nothing more is needed to say here.

20 years late ?

[(Anonymous)]

Aren't you over 20 years late here ?

ESR has long advocated for doing without RMS:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/open-source.html

About the reason for this post mentioned in [1], reading it I see an angry person, clueless about who RMS is, misrepresenting his words and calling for his removal while at the same time stating this is not about RMS but about her own personal accumulation during her personal life.

Re: 20 years late ?

[(Anonymous)]

Your catb link doesn't advocate for doing without Stallman. It advocates using the term "open source" and notes that Stallman doesn't think it's pure enough.

Stallman's argument against using "sexual assault" is because he wants people to use the "specific term that avoids moral vagueness about the nature of the criticism."

The specific legal term for a nonconsensual sexual act, including when the victim lacks capacity to consent, is "sexual assault". 34 U.S. Code § 12291 (29) - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/34/12291#a_27 . I think it's reasonable for people to believe that someone coerced into having sex with another person does not have the capacity to consent.

Ergo, his complaint that "it is absolutely wrong to use the term “sexual assault” in an accusation" is unjustifiable from the get-go.

Am I misrepresenting him?

[(Anonymous)]

-- I've spent a lot of time working with him to help him understand why various positions he holds are harmful. I've reached the conclusion that it's not that he's unable to understand, he's just unwilling to change his mind

The humility there. Who died and made you King of Opinions? Should we all check with you on what's right?

[(Anonymous)]

Like one reply above said, "mostly egoistic and self-righteous techgeeks, the desktop Linux community is a freely anarchic and toxic community, like a pack of wild dogs".

I know Matthew usually sounds quite self-righteous sometimes, but I've come to understand that he actually cares about the community, even if he doesn't choose the best words to express it. I think it's in human nature to find ourselves right when we have any kind of interest in something.

Re: Maybe it's you being overly sentsitive?

[mjg59]

(Comment removed for weird anti-semitism)

Hello there, here's some autistic guy as well.

[(Anonymous)]

RMS is just a guy who does not get his words checked, and those are the consequences. My opinion on him is a bit harsh, but I believe he somewhat deserves it, even though not in such a sensational fashion.

I'm an autistic man who's looking for therapy to resolve his. Doing some useless ramblings about semantics should not be a way to think and extrapolate about the real, traumatic issues that may happen to other people. Me myself being an electronics engineer, I cannot abide for more people doing tech jobs like him. If you're a leader of any organization no matter which, you should check your words, because that implies you public image, period. It's just that simple.

I for one, believe that we need to have more level-minded people, if such endeavors are going to thrive.

Kind Regards.

Re: post-RMS Free Software

[(Anonymous)]

Закрывайте фонд, не позорьтесь. Он сгнил. Реферренты очень скоро отменят ежемесячные пожертвования на ваши адреса.

You should be killed.

[(Anonymous)]

You should be killed, along with the rest of the infiltrators.